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Author Topic: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
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Post Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
on: May 4, 2013, 20:17
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There havent been Learn and Compare Challenges for a while but finaly;

Here is the Tune for the 4th Learn and Compare Challenge: Its is "GreenSleeves"
Its a beautifull English Traditional and its not hard to learn.
Give it a try. It sureley will be fun.

Recordings are listetd at the bottom of this post
Discussions and Feedback will be found below

- - -
About the Tune Greensleeves:

* The Tune Greensleeves is an old English traditional Song.

* The Melody of "Greensleeves" was used also with several Alternative lyrics and one famous version of this tune is well known as a Christmas song called "What Child is this"

* Listen to the Melody of Greensleeves - What Child is this, at wikipedia

Recources of more Information, Notation and more:

*"Dots and Tabs"; notation source if one need or want one:
the C&F Member "Wanderer" has a nice website with notation for many tunes, you can find greensleeves there too, its an easy playing version, no half-holing needed, just be aware of the C naturals

* Lyrics: The 2 different lyrics on Wikisource

* More About: Greensleeves on Wikipedia

* PLaylist: in the My Music Community net Youtube Channel, you will find the Playlist with many Greensleeves Versions:
its many vidoes and the playlist still grows
... or you can watch the videos right here below (check - its more then one video, they run one after the other)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVwYQvHucq7iWwNKBoo4ALuNJM3aqDevU

If you do have more informations, please share them, different notations, examples, whatever ....
All usefull information will be colected and added into this (top) posting.

And last but not least add your recordings of this tune to this thread.
Have fun and learn well.

Untill now our challenges have been only for whistling but we should change that and everybody should feel free enough to learn, record and share it played on another Instrument.


Recordings:
  • Kmarty:
  • Andreas the German Whistler
  • Pepe the Crab - Your Admin

    kmarty
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 4, 2013, 23:40
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    I don't like this version, but I can't make a good half holed G# πŸ™
    https://soundcloud.com/kmartycz/greensleeves/s-xxMkI
    BTW. This tune is not easy to me - it requires very good rhythm (as any slow tune).

    ...everybody should feel free enough to learn, record and share it played on another Instrument.

    OK, here is a "piano" version πŸ™‚
    https://soundcloud.com/kmartycz/greensleeves-piano/s-Z1JI2
    Played on old Yamaha PSR410 used as MIDI keyboard into GarageBand. I don't think this is usable to this Challenge. Beginner? Yes, but not challenge.

    The Melody of Greensleeves was used also with Alternative lyrics and one famous version of this tune is well known as a Christmas song called "What Child is this"

    Interesting. I never heard about that until now.

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 5, 2013, 18:45
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    Wow you are faster than fast, now a pianoversion too πŸ™‚ Great!
    I will listen to it later and come back with feedback for both versions,
    i am working on my own recording, well i have to practise a bit more before recording πŸ™‚

    Most times there are many interesting things to know about a tune/song.
    I like to google for informations about the tunes i like to listen to and/or learn to play.
    Most times just a look to wikipedia is quite interesting.
    Soon i will moove the "Greensleeves Playlist" to the My Music Community Youtube chanel - there you can hear the song in many different versions. Untill then you can find it in my private youtube chanell

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 5, 2013, 20:34
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    Done!
    in the My Music Community net Youtube Channel
    you will find the:
    Playlist with many Greensleeves Versions:
    realy many πŸ˜‰
    who will listen to that cant say "i dont get that tune into my head" (i didnt listen to all yet myself)
    there are modern versions and classical ones, celtic-, renaissance- and rock- versions, on whistles, guitars, pianos, harps, flutes, dulcimers, and many more instruments, songs and instrumental versions, .... just have a look yourself

    at the end one also will find lessons (didnt check them yet) so no garanty of any kind from this side for the quality πŸ˜‰

    if anyone knows more videos wich should be listetd there, let me know ... the list will grow even if we we over 60 videos already πŸ˜‰

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 6, 2013, 20:05
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    @ kmarty
    Hey ho Martin, i just took some time and did listen to your whistle recording some times
    as far as i can hear, you used the same notation as i do, did you use the one i did send to you?

    you said "I don't like this version, but I can't make a good half holed G#
    what do you mean? what and why you dont like it?
    would you like to play it in a didfferent key? is it that? so take another whistle and you still are finbe with the easy fingering of this version

    i do, most times i play it on a c whistle but with the fingering for the d whistle
    as far as i can say, your rhyhtm is ok, but i am not very good in that
    i have to say that i didnt play from notation for long just used my "scrappapers" and there is no rhythm notated πŸ˜‰
    for me it feels like the tune makes me feel the rhythmn just by itself ... cant describe it but its just therE
    but maybe i did listen to it so often
    did you try to listen to the playlist? its always a nice way to get a tune, and the rhythm into your head i belive

    i work like this often, i should use propper notation and a metronome; i know but i just listen a lot and "play around" as i feel, ... and its fun but of course it does not take me that quick so far
    anyway you are a fast learner and i am slow, my way doesent seem to be the best πŸ˜‰
    maybe a combination would fit us both better?

    i like the sound of your whistle, but even if i am a fan of "echo" and "reverb" thats to much for me and does not sound natural in your recording - how did you make it? audacity?

    the pitch? well i think i know why i like to play it an a c whistle πŸ˜‰

    anyway well done, and to me it sound accurate but i am sure you could play it better with more practise

    about the piano, i know nearly nothing about pianos
    well there is a nice part and a not nice part
    the melody you play nice but there are from time to time ...whats that, chords? like the second note directly,....its Bam....bam....bam... and it doesnt sound nice and so mechanic to me

    are you good in piano? why not try to play it (with some more notes - if you understand what i mean) and more like a background and than add the whistle on top?

    if i could, i would love to play it on guitar and use the whistle to take the voice part of a song, .... but i am not good enough on the guitar yet
    maybe thats a reason why i practise so much guitar and so little whistle in the last time because id love to do that with all tunes πŸ˜‰
    anyway, you can play it on the piano better than me on the guitar and you have my respect

    so much from me for now, hope you will get more feedback soon (we need more active people ;-))

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 6, 2013, 21:16
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    I did update the top post of this thread,
    now you can find notation, a playlist and much more information in it.

    Pepe the Crab - Your Admin

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 6, 2013, 21:21
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    you said "I don't like this version, but I can't make a good half holed G#
    what do you mean? what and why you dont like it?
    would you like to play it in a didfferent key? is it that? so take another whistle and you still are finbe with the easy fingering of this version

    It won't help, I think. The version I know is the version which I tried to play on piano.

    Rhythm: I hear my out-of-rhythm everytime I hear my recording. Unfortunately almost never when I play.

    Reverb: I don't know, but I felt that this tune deserves more reverb than I usually use. Probably bad idea.
    Yes, reverb is added using Audacity (like in anything I recorded last four months).
    Here is one of previous recording where reverb is not so big:
    https://soundcloud.com/kmartycz/greensleeves-2nd/s-VLXl4
    (Same whistle, different ... "key"(?), used half-holed D# and some compromise because some notes are missing - lowest tone is "D", of course πŸ™‚ )

    Piano: I told you that this is not for challenge :-). It sounds weird due to more things:

    • This keyboard has broken ...dynamika ΓΊhozu... on keyboard it is named as "Touch Response" or so. So I disabled it and it results that all keys sounds at the same volume regardless of how strong you touched the keys. It makes all chords/tones too hard than it should be.
    • I don't have sustain pedal (another thing is that I'm not sure if I'll be able to use it πŸ™‚ )
    • I'm not good at playing on piano :-). I usually play (if I play) just right hand parts. This point is probably a big reason why is sounds so mechanic

    The piano version I recorded just as a fun, like the video where I'm trying to play on whistle like on flute :-).

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 6, 2013, 21:57
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    still dont understand why you dont like this/your version

    but i do like the recoring with less reverb much better

    and maybe i should but i dont hear rhythm mistakes or other errors, should i? i mean you can hear it, i feel like i should be able to
    i also dont hear missing notes in the melody but, ......well in the last time i have terrilbe problems to concentrate and even remembering the whole melody is unpossible for me, thats a reason why i still cant play more then the first half of saddle the pony, i dont get it into my head completely and i am sure greensleeves i will have to play from notation and not out of memoy....the bad thing is i play it many times with whatevert notes i guess comes next πŸ™‚ because i cant even follow my notation πŸ™
    ill record and post my version as soon as i can

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 6, 2013, 23:12
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    The biggest rhythm mistake here is that I started B part too early

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 00:29
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    anyway, what do you think about the tune?
    I think its beautifull
    apart from that you dont like the version in that key as you have played it, as i understood

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 06:57
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    I like Greensleeves, but ... I always heard the "modern" version (where is two notes flattened or so) and maybe that's the reason why the "classic" version sounds me ... strange. I have feeling like I'm crippling this beatiful tune/song.

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 16:58
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    and are you sure that there is no version you would like wich you can play without to need halfholing? there are so many versions

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 17:44
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    Are you sure you were not a tradesman? πŸ˜€

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 18:44
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    well i am πŸ˜‰ ... sort of
    Why?

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 7, 2013, 19:44
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    Just that your ... ehm ... persistence(?) is very similar πŸ™‚

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 8, 2013, 05:17
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    its just because i recomended the tune and hope you enjoy it πŸ˜‰

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 8, 2013, 09:13
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    Oh no. I probably was wrong to express* - IF I didn't like and didn't enjoy it as you probably think, I would not play it nor record it.

    *) My english is simply not good enough. I often trying to simplify what I want to say, just because I don't know how to say.

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: May 30, 2013, 21:34
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    just an update
    i will post my recording soon, need just a little more time working on it πŸ˜‰

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: June 29, 2013, 21:25
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    Well, it took me a long time, but finaly, I did record my (or a) version of Greensleeves (aka what child is this)

    It has some few little mistakes (i am sure you can hear them) in it, but I think its ok. Ist it?
    Specialy because it was my first take!
    Or i better say, the 4th try on the first take (or 5th?) Listen yourself,:
    Outtakes well in fact this is the whole take.
    I did play untill I liked it and than just had to take another recording for the talking (cause i never did that right), mixed it, and added some echo to the whistle (you know I like that) and here is:
    Greensleeves on Penny Whistle (Waltons brass D) by the German Whistler

    PLease be critical and let me know what you think.
    I noticed that my whistling skills didnt develeop much or maybe even did decrese again cause i didnt practise a lot for many month ... what do you think?

    Id like to say more about it, the tune, why I play it that way, but not now …

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: June 29, 2013, 23:20
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    PLease be critical and let me know what you think.

    Hi Andreas,
    I realized that it is a beginners forum so what I say is not literally(?) a criticsm, rather hint what you need to focus when learning (it sounds silly when it is written by beginner πŸ™‚ ).
    I believe you don't have a really problem with rhythm, so there are two noticeable things: breathing and slow(?) fingering.
    Unfortunatelly I don't know how to learn/train steady breath and fast ... inhales(?), but both is needed. Steady breath for calm tone (whistle is very sensitive when breath pressure is changing) and fast inhales to avoid delay in rhythm. Maybe it is not about fast inhales, but about shorter inhales more often.
    And slow fingering, it came by time when playing. I know that very well. For example, I still have fingering problems on tunes Maggie in the woods and B part of Road to Lisdoonvarna. Fingers on left hand aren't as fast as fingers on right hand (although I'm left-handed πŸ™‚ ).

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: June 29, 2013, 23:58
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    dont worry, you are, and also your critique, is very welcome, i only can learn from other points of view
    i also belive that some beginners can remember some things better than some advanced people πŸ˜‰
    and, more important, music isnt made for professionals , its made for everybody so everybody has a value opinion
    .... so dont worry, i am glad that you took the time to think and write about it, thats why we do this here, dont we?

    well breathing, πŸ˜‰ one of my problems, you are right!
    yes i should breath faster in and more steady out i guess, i should and will work on that, i play to little since i started guitar again

    but i have to say about my breathing, that, part of my sickness, you know that i am quite sick for a long tiome already, is because of breathing, i even had an operation because of it and maybe need one more πŸ™
    i have such hard problems breathing that i even make (loud) noise when breath ( i tried not to make it on the recording)
    it was better after i had lost 30 kilo but after changing medication i added 25 again and right now, i am always short on air

    BUT not all my whistling problems are because of that, but maybe the whistle isnt even right for me but maybe it helps me train my lungs πŸ˜‰
    i want and should be able to handle this somehow, i have to work on it

    anyway, when i did listen to my recdording i noticet, that i like the way i play but that some tones are not steady .... and that sound like very unaccurate, is it that what you mean?

    about the rhythmn, the delay is not by accident
    i did learn this tune since january (yes i am slow), and at least did think a lot about how to play it and the nicest versions i heard were sang songs, so i took the freedom not to take care of the rhythmn that much and make breaks where i would when singing
    maybe thats ok, maybe bad, i dont know

    But if it sounds bad to you, thats one point of view i should consider and hope i will get more
    i do know that i hate or really never did play with metronom, always just by feeling, for a dance tune i would have to try to be accurate but for songs?

    about the fingeringproblems, are there parts where you hear that i had those? i dont understand

    so ... i realy should work on the tune much more, maybe i did think to much about how to play it and practise to little πŸ˜‰ but i wanted finaly get a recording online ...another one will follow, i am sure

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 18, 2013, 16:13
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    Hi guys, here's my contribution for the Geensleeves challenge it's a little bit rough as I'd need a month or two playing to get it where I like it and with less need for music notation.

    Checkout my whistling progress
    "Life is not like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What's good
    today may burn your ass tomorrow" - unknown

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 18, 2013, 18:38
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    hehe thats one reason why it took me so long, i always want to be able to play without the need of notation, so from memory

    anyway, i still dont ornament much, nearly never
    and many times i prefere tunes without ornemntation
    also this tune i wouldnd play with ornaments myself
    but i like to listen to your version

    well done for such a short time!
    hope you like the tune and will continue to work on it?

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 22, 2013, 20:12
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    so what do YOU think about my rhythm delay as mentioned above?
    is it important to keep the rhythm or is it ok to have breaks as if you were singing?

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 22, 2013, 21:02
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    If the breaks are timed to fit into the tempo then I see no problem. Constant tempo/timing is something to strive to achieve and something I am always aware of even If I don't have perfect timing πŸ˜€

    Checkout my whistling progress
    "Life is not like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What's good
    today may burn your ass tomorrow" - unknown

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 23, 2013, 15:53
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    honestly i cant even say if my timing was ok or not - so was ist bad?
    i started to practice with a metronom now,(sometimes) but its hard for me

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 23, 2013, 16:55
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    Quote from Andreas the German Whistler on July 23, 2013, 15:53i started to practice with a metronom now,(sometimes) but its hard for me

    I understand you, I tried to play with metronom once ... and it was insane :-).
    So I don't use it. Maybe it's bad idea, I don't know. My wife often telling me that I'm slipping out of rhythm. And I know that :-). Unfortunatelly I often find it after playing (and listening recordings), not when I play.

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 23, 2013, 20:11
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    Some input on my understanding of metronome use. I only use the metronome on an exercise or tune that I have learned to play completely should that be from read notation or from memory. The reason for this is simply if you struggle to play the tune/piece in it's entirety and miss notes and slow down on difficult phrases etc; trying to play with a metronome will only compound the difficulties. to internalise the beat I like to listen to metronome while tapping my foot... then turn the metronome off and play whistle, guitar to my foot tapping only. Takes practice but I am getting okay at this though 6/8 and 3/4 are giving me extra trouble πŸ™‚

    Checkout my whistling progress
    "Life is not like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What's good
    today may burn your ass tomorrow" - unknown

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 23, 2013, 22:34
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    Didn't play anything with 3/4 yet, I think.
    But if it helps, at 6/8, 9/8 and 12/8 I use both states of foot in tapping (foot down & foot up, both as "tap"). It works for me (I hope πŸ™‚ ).

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 27, 2013, 14:36
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    i just turned on my metronom and wanted to play .... a dotted quarter note followed by two 8th notes ...
    than i turned my metronom off again
    i think i have to start with the very very easy tunes again πŸ™

    anyway, back to topic, greensleeves, ...
    kmarty, you mentioned the rhythm mistakes, do you still think its mistakes? what about my argument about its being a song?
    have you read this thread on c&F about interpretations and being wrong in music?
    is my version realy worng, or can i call it an interpretation?
    whistler, what do you think about it?
    i cant talk for you, but iu surely can learn from opinions about this topic
    maybe i will post my "own-wrong-rhythm-version" there ... but i am scared they trell me that i didnt become any better in all the time πŸ˜‰
    damn, i dont whistle enough

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 27, 2013, 15:30
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    (Oh, this will be hard to say in english for me).

    Andreas, I mentioned just unexpected pauses and of rhythm fingering which looked like slow breathing and fingering and which probably wasn't intention. I can be mistaken, of course.
    I'm not music professional and never had any lessons about music theory, but I think that interpretation (own version and/or rhythm) doesn't break what's expected and when it is expected once you are immersed in music flow as listener. Good example is this interpretation of Greensleeves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rvcZMY37I
    But it may be my another big mistake πŸ™‚

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 27, 2013, 16:40
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    to be honnest, i dont even know if i made those breaks because i wanted or because i did need to breatrh πŸ˜‰ ... i have to listen again myself
    but i DO know that i was thinking about it a lot before i found out how i want to play it
    i do know that i made a longerf break between the E and the A after the first part and used the A to start the second part .... so that break was on purpose but the others?
    maybe my version is too close to the expected one and thats why it sounds wrong, because its "just" close?
    or did it just sound unexpected?

    by the way, nice version in you youtube link

    EDIT: i did listen again to my recording now, and all the breaks are where i wanted them to be, that way i have put the tune in 4 parts and after each part i have a noticable (longer) break ... same place i would make them when singing

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 27, 2013, 17:07
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    There are many things I can't say/write in czech neither in english.
    For example my recording - I'm not satisfied with it because something is missing. I can't say exactly what but overall it doesn't make me the right feeling.
    How can I describe your recording if I can't describe what is wrong in my own recording :-).

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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: July 28, 2013, 10:11
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    i feel the same many times
    but this time, because of this discussion, now i am even more sure about my way to play this tune
    i play it in 4 parts with breaks after them
    and i always accentuate (toung) the first and third beat, slur the others
    that feels right for me on the whistle
    its different on the guitar, there i play nearly always different rhythms and sometimes even different notes ....crazy, but it feels good ...probably sound terrible πŸ˜‰

    EDIT; forgot to say ... and that is important, i guess by comparing and discussions like this here, one can besome more sure about what and how
    even if we are few people and all more or less beginners, it can be helpfull, this time it was for me, next time for you or both of us

    Andreas Fischer the German Whistler
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    Post Re: Greensleeves - What Child is this - Challange No.4 - May 2013
    on: October 23, 2013, 16:10
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    HI guys ... I've listened to the 3 tunes posted so far ... great job all of you. I read the comments first befor listening and I was all set up for some sort of disaster Andreas!! It was not so.
    I see your reasoning on the breaks but to me the breaks sound too long. You are losing the flow to my ears.
    kmarty ... nice simple version of the tune well played.
    Whistler ... I like the oramentation you've added and an interesting version of the song. Some of which was really interesting and some bits which I didn't particularly like.
    I think I'll try and shoot for something in between kmarty's and whistler's versions.

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